Chatty AF 235: 2025 Fall Mid-Season Check-In (WITH TRANSCRIPT)

CY: You don’t know she could have the same issue that Quiet from Metal Gear Solid does, where she’s gotta breathe through her skin!

PETER: She’s gotta breathe through her skin. I didn’t think of that.

CY: Gotta breathe through her skin and her tits. Breathe through ‘em!

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] You’re gonna regret your words and deeds.

CY: [Chuckles]

PETER: Kojima was right. Yeah, I regret my words and deeds.

[Introductory musical theme]

CAITLIN: Hello, and welcome to Chatty AF: The Anime Feminist Podcast. My name is Caitlin. I occasionally do stuff around here at Anime Feminist. You can find me at Bluesky @alltsunnodere. I am joined today by three guests, first one being Maya, who may come and go in the background. And who are you two chatty humans?

CY: I’m Cypress, or Cy for short, and I am an editor and the interim tech editor here at Anime Feminist. And you can find me on Bluesky @pixelatedlenses. I apologize for my voice. I just decided to be extra nasally and husky today, a.k.a. asthma!

PETER: Oh. I’m Peter Fobian, I’m an editor here at Anime Feminist, and I am @peterfobian on Bluesky.

CY: I love that you just have your full legal name out there.

PETER: Yep. Just put it all out there.

CAITLIN: In case you’re new around here, the purpose of this podcast is around the middle of the season we check in with all of the shows that we are watching. We try to go through the Premiere Digest from the bottom up, and we also try to make sure that we get some good discussion in about the shows that members of our Patreon have voted for, on patreon.com/animefeminist. We’re gonna try to keep spoilers light, but if you want to go in pure, turn this off, watch whatever you want to see, come back to us later. We’ll still be here.

For this season, we are not actually watching anything in the Red Flags or the Yellow Flags category, it looks like.

PETER: Self-care.

CAITLIN: We are starting—

CY: [Laughs]

CAITLIN: —in the Neutral Zone. That might be a podcast first! What a chill season it is! Peter, you are watching, as usual, a lot of the trash. How is A Wild Last Boss Appears [sic] going?

PETER: I think the question that we had was… you know, the whole premise of the story is that it’s a boy who played a video game getting isekai’d into the body of his female character, and whether they were gonna do anything with that at all. And at least initially, it just didn’t seem like they touched on it too much, but I do think it’s getting into a little bit, getting a little bit of Inside Mari vibes. He has noticed that he no longer feels attracted to women’s bodies when they go to the hot springs together. And now they’re doing this thing where he is remembering things that she experienced that wasn’t part of the backstory that he wrote, meaning not only he is in her body but it’s not the same person that he really recognizes, and he feels a relationship and affection toward other characters that is contextual toward his relationship in that world rather than maybe how he knew the player outside of the world. 

So, I think it’s definitely trying to do something with him being inside a woman’s body whose past he doesn’t know about and he’s kind of experiencing her memories in real time. I don’t know really where it’s headed, but it does seem like the story wants to open that as the grand mystery going on. So, it could do something. Unfortunately, one of the revelations about the character’s backstory is that she suffered from fantasy racism because of the color of her wings.

CY: [Laughs] Oh, no!

PETER: There are white-wing supremacists in the winged people race, and both their parents had white wings and she had black wings, so they locked her in a shed—er, her dad locked her in a shed. And it had two scenes where he, like… he punched her in the face (it was really… you know, kind of very realistic animation) even though her mom, her sickly mother, still loved her. And that was kind of one of the impetus… Seeing injustice in the world was one of things that turned her into the villain. So, definitely some fraught stuff. I know it is always that way with some fantasy racism. I’m curious what, if anything, it plans to do with his character’s sexuality now that he feels confused regarding where his sexual attractions lie now that he’s in a woman’s body, along with the memories and just how he got there. So, mixed bag so far, and I can see if it gets anywhere by the end of the season.

CY: I would just like to say I would really love to see one day the white-winged people experience what the black-winged people do. Because, like, my lord. Can we not carry…? Like, anti-blackness really permeates—It is the one thing that links the multiverse together. And I hate that! [Chuckles] Oh, my God.

PETER: I will say, hers are pitch black although the wings come in all sorts of colors. It’s just that— And they… the white wings hate ‘em all except for the white. And they do have a big flying village. You can only fly to different places because it’s really tall, it’s built vertically, and they’ve got segregated neighborhoods for the…

CY: Oh, so they hate anyone with wings of color.

PETER: Uh, yes, any wings of color.

CY: Okay, so, the WOCs (Wings of Color) aren’t safe, y’all. Take heed when you take to the skies.

PETER: Mm-hm. Yeah, and they secretly… the wings-of-color people have a cult that worships her because she was gonna save them all from racism before she was struck down by the other heroes, so now she’s like a religious figure.

CY: [crosstalk] I… I…

PETER: Yeah. [Chuckles]

CY: Yeah. Huh. That’s anime.

PETER: That one was just… They’re, like, in the midst of that story arc right now, so we’re gonna see how that one probably rolls out soon.

CAITLIN: Okay! Well, when I set up the spreadsheet, I realized I failed at alphabetization, because the second-to-last one we have listed is Yano-kun’s Ordinary Days, which Peter is also watching. Anything really worth talking about with that one?

PETER: It’s wonderful. I love it. It’s entering my top-tier slice-of-life comedies along with titles like Tanaka-kun Is Always Listless. I was worried that it was gonna be kinda one note about him getting hurt, but… It’s a little goofy. I mean, obviously, he is a cursed boy who is always getting hit by flying rocks and erasers and cars and whatnot. But I think the central romance is pretty funny. The girl is very overwhelmed at all times and confused by how do you romance. I think it’s a really great job so far.

Also, it really cut to the chase with the romance and now has them kind of figuring out how to be in a relationship, which is, as we all… I guess the trope is, you know, it always takes ‘em till the end of the series to get together. But, especially as soon as Yano found out that someone else was interested in the girl, somebody else in class asked him what his type was and he just said, “My type is Yoshida…” [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: Aw.

PETER: … in front of the whole class and then just started being really nice to her to the point where she needed to go to the nurse’s office because she couldn’t… she was so confused by the outward display of romantic confirmation and affection, her brain turned off. But then they end up deciding to be a couple. And there’s a boy who also likes her and doesn’t want to be best friends with Yano, but he is best friends with Yano, too, who I also really like his dynamic in it.

So, yeah, it’s just really cute and funny, and I think everybody should watch it. It’s great.

CAITLIN: So, it’s my turn to talk now. Ha-ha!

PETER: Please.

CAITLIN: Because I am watching Wandance, which is a really delightful series. I’m very much enjoying it. I would be very, very curious to hear [from] people who have dealt stutters and how they feel about it, because that is kind of part of the central conceit, is that the main character, Kabo, has a hard time communicating with others because he has a stutter, so he gets into dance as a form of nonverbal self-expression, and also because there’s a really pretty girl who he meets who’s in the dance team [Chuckles], Wanda. 

But I think it’s really interesting because the way people respond to a stutter feels very real, where they’re always… they think he’s being rude because he can’t get the polite script out properly and greet people the way he’s supposed to greet them, or they think that he’s getting anxious and his words are getting all mixed up in his head, when he’s like, “No, I think clearly. Just it doesn’t come out that way,” which is how stutters work. It is a disconnect between the brain and the mouth. And a lot of times when those communication issues crop up, Wanda will come running up and she’ll be like, “He just has a hard time getting words out! He’s not trying to be rude. He’s not upset. He just has a hard time getting words out,” whenever someone says, “So what is going on with you?” And so, to me it seems a little… it’s sweet, but it might also be a little savior-y. I don’t know. I can’t really make the call with that. 

It’s also nice that she is actively trying to help advocate for him. So, I can’t make the call for that. But otherwise, I am really, really enjoying the show.

CY: I was going to say, so, I’m behind on it, but I actually wanted to chime in because something I actually don’t talk about is I do have difficulties with speech in person. I have whatever condition causes me to flip words when I’m trying to say something.

CAITLIN: Oh, I do that all the time.

CY: And if there’s too many syllable patterns that are similar, I will have trouble with getting the right pattern out. It showed up a lot with me as a kid with things like “animal” because that N and M sounds really, really similar. And I actually really like the depiction of how stuttering is treated, because I do think in real life there is a desire from people to want to autocorrect and anticipate what you’re going to say when actually you just need the space to get out what you’re trying to express. 

And I like the flipside of expression going through nonverbal movement, through dancing, because dancing is inherently expressive as much as it’s inherently cultural, and I think it’s really interesting… And I’m sure— You know, I have had the internal conversation with myself of the use of a lot of Black culture in dancing anime, but I do think here it becomes actually a really interesting vehicle that challenges kind of… I mean, because having a stutter is a disability. And I perceive it as a disability; some people may not. But I do like that intermingling of a marginalized form of dance that’s very popular paired with someone who has a disability and is kind of at odds in society as well. That’s my little two cents.

CAITLIN: Yeah. No, thank you for chiming in on that in particular. So, I think for both of us one of the big criticisms of the show at the start was the dancing animation.

CY: [Laughs] Yeah. [Laughs]

CAITLIN: It looked real bad at the start.

CY: It looked so bad. It was giving, like, Newgrounds.

CAITLIN: Geez.

CY: It was like… we were taking it back with some of those moves because it was… [Chuckles]

PETER: All I have seen are edits just dunking on this show for the dance animation.

CAITLIN: So, it has improved. It’s still not great. I still wish it were hand drawn.

CY: Yeah!

CAITLIN: But the dance scenes have improved a lot.

CY: I’ll take it.

CAITLIN: So, I do want to put that out there if you were avoiding it because of the dance animation, because I did see a bunch of people being like, “If the dancing looks bad in a dance show, why should I even bother?” Which is fair.

So, my one big criticism of it is that—and it’s not even really a big criticism—Wanda’s a little Manic Pixie Dream Girl. Do you see what I’m saying?

CY: Mm-hmm.

CAITLIN: It’s not that she doesn’t have her own motivations, but it does feel a little bit like she is swept into Kabo’s life and showed him this amazing new thing that is helping him figure things out so much more than he ever did before and helping him to find how to express his true self and then that’s what this story’s about, is about this girl helping to fix this boy’s life.

CY: What I will say is that I think that’s very true, but I do think I like to read it as like this is kinda the intensity you feel as a teenager when someone comes into your life and shows you this whole new thing that you didn’t even know you could access, that maybe you recognized existed but you were so in the fringe and didn’t understand the depth of it that it feels magical. I don’t think that takes away from the fact that I’m just tired of teenage girls having to do the heavy lifting. 

But I do think there is a reading of, like, this is capturing the feeling, and I hope that the show expands that to, like, these are two people, rather than like you have this girl CGI-dancing her way into his life. [Chuckles] Because I do think it feels kinda magical and kind of otherworldly and really exciting when you find someone that shows you this new thing and shows you a way to engage and communicate. But I do think what you said is right.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] And if they’re an attractive person of the gender you’re into, then you’re probably gonna catch feelings, right?

CY: Oh, absolutely.

CAITLIN: So, Cy, you are watching Touring After the Apocalypse.

CY: Yeah, and I love it. I really like it. I like shows that capture the other side of the apocalypse, where it’s just this kind of reclaimed landscape and we’re just going through it and we’re just living and… And I mean, clearly there’s a mystery underpinning everything, but it’s just a nice show to sit with and ponder, especially in these times where we are going through our own what it often feels like to be an apocalypse. 

It’s just nice to sit with a show that is giving Yokohama Kaidashi Kikou vibes. It’s just that cozy— [Chuckles] This is also because I’m still in love with Super Cub. That’s right: it’s 2025 and I still love it. It’s just nice. I just enjoy it. I like it. I bought the manga. I think I bought all six volumes that are available right now. I just like it.

CAITLIN: Yeah. I mean, it seemed nice, just not my thing from the beginning.

CY: Yeah, and I will admit: slice-of-life, kind of moe-adjacent stuff is always going to be my bread and butter. I love it.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Mm-hm. I think I came into the chat and I was like, “I wasn’t feeling the show but, Cy, you are going to lose it over it.”

CY: [Chuckles] Yeah! You know I was! Because I love those little interstitial moments of girls being girls and insert— I mean, I think back to Let’s Make a Mug Too! I loved that because it was girls being girls making pottery. And this is girls being girls on a motorbike, going through a post-apocalyptic Japan, and it’s great! [Chuckles] It’s great! It’s eye candy. There’s no substantial plot. I love it.

CAITLIN: Let’s move on to something completely different, Tojima Wants to Be a Kamen Rider, which, I have to say, I have a lot of thoughts and feelings about just the first two episodes. Just…

PETER: Mm-hm. Yeah?

CAITLIN: Do… do her— Did she have to change the costume to be a bustier?

CY: [Laughs]

CAITLIN: Did she have to alter it to make it so her tits were out? If she were so obsessed with being authentically this character, Peter.

PETER: Right. Like, her reason for being a fan of Tackle and Tackle dying in the old show and her being devastated as a kid, I thought, was the best of all the people’s backstories with Kamen Rider. And then she takes this character who dresses in motorcycle leathers, fully covered-up outfit, and just goes, “What if it was a miniskirt and just a low-cut blouse that I wore instead?”

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Just a practical outfit.

PETER: Yeah, yeah. It looks—

CAITLIN: It’s not about modesty; it’s about practicality, right?

PETER: It is a sexy Halloween version of the original character’s outfit.

CY: I mean, you don’t know: she could have the same issue that Quiet from Metal Gear Solid does, where she’s gotta breathe through her skin!

PETER: She’s gotta breathe through her skin. I didn’t think of that.

CY: Gotta breathe through her skin and her tits. Breathe through ‘em!

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] You’re gonna regret your words and deeds.

CY: [Chuckles]

PETER: Kojima was right. Yeah, I regret my words and deeds. Uh, and, I don’t know, it’s just… it’s so in your face all the time. Like, they’ll do postcard memory shots where the whole screen’s in a snapshot, no movement except her boobs are bouncing up and down. It’s so… It just—

CAITLIN: Yeah. When I found out this was from a manga based on the Air Master creator, everything made sense.

PETER: Oh, is it? Okay. Yeah, I don’t… So disappointing, too, because I kind of looked at the show and was like, “Oh, that’s a premise. We’ll see if they can execute on it.” And then I watched the first episode, and you know when he quote-unquote “transforms” by putting on the kid’s mask? And you just…

CY: [Chuckles]

PETER: He has this moment of ecstasy. Just his entire… Feeling like his entire life was leading to this moment. All of his doubts disappeared. And all he had done was put on a shitty plastic mask and punched out some guys who were causing some trouble at a festival. Right? But it was like life affirming, and I thought they fucking nailed it, man. It was kind of moving, almost. And then the second episode is just all about how much fanservice can we fit into this episode about this woman essentially having the same backstory and the same moment but we’re just gonna make the whole thing jiggle. 

It’s just like… I feel like the show would be so good and so fun if they… It feels like he didn’t have any confidence in his own ability to tell this story and made it worse by putting all this stuff in, in a desperate attempt to just catch some easy views. And… yeah. It’s more disappointing because I feel like he did it: he executed on the concept. Every single episode, he keeps doing the same joke in different ways and it keeps working. The backstory with the yakuza who always wanted to be one of the bad guys was… I don’t know if his dad sold himself into sex slavery or what, but—

CAITLIN: The Kenjiro Tsuda one?

PETER: Yeah, Kenjiro Tsuda’s character. He literally… That’s some of the most emoting I’ve had to hear Kenjiro Tsuda do in quite a while. He’s literally… He’s like telling his dad to take care of himself, and he’s like crying, and why he decided that villains are better after having such a disappointing childhood. And he did it again! I even empathize with the villains in this one who want to be the guys who transform by essentially doing a sideways Sieg Heil. But… yeah. It’s just all that fucking jiggling, man. I just wish that it would stop. It’s like I have to wait through it to get to the good stuff again every episode.

CAITLIN: Yeah. And, like, I have a lot of issues with the Tackle character because it’s also she’s getting into her dad’s Kamen Rider instead of finding it on her terms. It’s… Yeah. But I haven’t watched past episode 2, so I can’t really speak for it. Do you think it’s fair to say, “Hey, kids! Watch Samurai Flamenco instead. I won’t tell you where to go get it”?

PETER: I haven’t watched SamFlam, so I—

CAITLIN: You haven’t watched SamFlam?

PETER: I have not.

CY: Me neither.

CAITLIN: [quiet] Oh, my God.

PETER: [crosstalk] I’ve heard enough that I feel like it would probably be a safe rec, but…

CAITLIN: Well, I’m gonna say, “Hey, kids! Go watch Samurai Flamenco. I won’t tell you how.”

PETER: Okay. That’s good.

CAITLIN: Now we are going to talk about A Star Brighter Than the Sun, which Cy and I are both watching.

CY: It’s so sweet!

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] And it’s just so… It’s just so— It’s just good, solid shoujo fundamentals done well.

CY: It’s just… It’s exactly that, and it’s so good! It’s so good. I am still tickled by the realization I had the other day of, like, “She’s 5’6″! She’s not enormously tall!” But, like, whatever. I don’t care. I love it! It’s so cute! [Chuckles] But it’s just sweet. It’s just nice to have a good shoujo in these hard times.

CAITLIN: You’ve got… Yeah, you’ve got the golden retriever boy. You’ve got the slightly insecure girl. You’ve got the two friends who are rooting her on. You know, you’ve got the dirtbag friend. It’s just… It’s just nice.

CY: And for me it’s a really good reminder that… You know, it’s—I do think— And I know this conversation goes around all the time about demographics, but, you know, growing up, I do think reading a lot of shoujo formed who I am, and reading things that were intended for the female gaze and readership matter, and this is just a show that’s a really nice reminder that that still is being done and there are really, really genuine, sweet series that are grounded and just feel wonderful and feel like a warm hug.

CAITLIN: And, you know, it’s got a female director. The production clearly doesn’t have a lot of resources available to it, but the director is doing such a good job. I can’t think of her name right now. Sorry. But yeah, no, it’s like clearly… the people working on it care about it enough to put in the effort to work with what they have. It’s from the same creator as My Love Story. It just— Yeah, no, it’s just nice to watch.

CY: And that passion… yeah, that passion makes it enjoyable, because I think at thirty-three I don’t necessarily care as much about big-budget, flashy shows. Like, I don’t want to watch garbage, because then I’m like, “Oh, these poor people were worked to death, and for what?!” But I will take a well-executed, perfectly neutrally fine-looking show over a big, flashy title that sucks. And this is like… it’s very charming. I like the art style. The budget is budgeting. Is the budget budgeting big? No, but it’s just nice! And I love just nice.

PETER: Oh, it’s Studio Kai! It’s the Super Cub studio.

CY: That’s why I like it so much! [Chuckles] Oh, it all comes back—In the end it all comes back to Super Cub, everyone. It always does.

PETER: [crosstalk] And it all came back to Super Cub.

CAITLIN: Alright.

CY: I want to hear about Monster Meat.

CAITLIN: I’m behind on it. I don’t have an excuse because I don’t have a job right now, except that job hunting sucks and I don’t often have the energy to watch a show that requires… I mean, it doesn’t require a lot of thought, but reading subtitles or that I feel like I need to watch with a critical eye… I’ve been watching Malcolm in the Middle and sewing for my chillout time. So…

PETER: Okay, I’m curious about your thoughts, though, because I was very charmed by the premise of this one, but then I watched a couple episodes and it just didn’t click for me, and it felt… It was very tragic. I really wanted to be into this show.

CAITLIN: I liked the first two episodes. I think it’s really sweet how he takes an interest in her passion. I think they have good chemistry. I think when he took off his shirt, monster meat was not the only meat she was thinking about.

CY: Oh! [Laughs]

CAITLIN: [Chuckles] There’s a brief flash of her walking by a window and seeing a bunch of guys with their shirts off, and she’s just looking out as she walks by. I’m just like, “Yeah, this girl’s…”

PETER: Looking respectfully.

CY: [crosstalk] Look, you gotta have the whole food pyramid. You gotta have a whole food pyramid.

CAITLIN: Yeah. I mean, I still intend to catch up. You know, that’s how it goes.

So, Peter, does your status as an assassin obviously exceed the hero’s?

PETER: Uh… My expectations were exceeded. So, I could say that. There’s a lot of visuals carrying this show. I think the director of the studio—

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] It’s a beautiful show.

PETER: Yeah, I think the manga actually had pretty good art. But they really leaned into ‘90s-core fantasy, which at least for me is like… I don’t know, it’s just like, “Here’s my childhood being delivered back up to me!” So, aesthetically, I just love the look and feel of the show. Story-wise, I think I’d call it pretty rote, kinda isekai, although I do want to give a shout-out to the fact that it just revealed that both the two romantic characters are fucking freaks, which was quite the surprise. Early on, he meets an elf girl and it’s the whole “She’s into him but he’s oblivious” type of thing. 

But recently, an enemy took control of her body and made her impale him from behind during a fight that almost killed him. But they made it through that. But later on, he’s talking with some of his classmates about how they can’t wait to get back to their world, and she gets upset because he’s gonna leave, right? And she runs off, he chases her, they meet on a cliff, and she says, “You know, I was horrified when I plunged my hand through your torso. But now I’m kind of glad I did it, because it’s gonna leave a scar that you’re gonna remember me by.”

[Chuckling]

PETER: And I’m like, “Wait a minute.” [Laughs] And his response to that was he pulls his knife and he cuts a ring around his finger to make a scar so that he’ll never forget her. And then she has him do it to her, too, so they both have scar rings around their ring fingers now, and they kiss, in a beautiful [way] by the ocean while there’s a sunset…

CAITLIN: We’ve got some, like, guro kinksters running this season. This and Yano? Like…

PETER: [crosstalk] Yeah, yeah, yeah, I’m like, “Hold up! Hold up!” Yeah. So, I don’t know if that’s just a one-off, a quick way of getting them to… That’s one hell of a way to get them to do a love confession, romance confirmation type of thing.

CY: I love it, though.

PETER: Yeah, it was freaky as hell.

CY: Hell yeah!

PETER: [crosstalk] So I’m like, hopefully the writer’s got some more curveballs like that for me. Otherwise, it’s just a very functional… I mean, I’d say above-average isekai with one of the best aesthetics I’ve seen in, like, the past ten years of watching freaking isekai every season. But yeah, they freaky.

CAITLIN: Alright, well, speaking of freaky… you guys, I’m not watching it, but both of you have been watching With You, Our Love Will Make It Through.

PETER: Uh-huh.

CY: [Laughs]

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] So, have at it!

CY: [Continues laughing] Whoo! Heh-heh! 2025 is saved, y’all! Because we got the horny monsters. And they’re not monsters; they’re just humanoid dogboys.

PETER: Mm-hmm. Not just dogs now!

CY: Not just dogs.

PETER: Not just dogs anymore.

CY: [crosstalk] I’m a little bit behind. But I… This is my bread and butter. [Chuckles] I love this. I have no one at my job as a bookseller that I can recommend this to publicly. But trust when I’m in the break room I’m gonna be like, “Hey! Do you want to have a conversation about racism?”

PETER: [Laughs] “Have you heard the good news?”

CY: “But have you wanted that to be… sexy?” Yeah. Like, “Have you heard the word of our furry lord?” Because the gurls are eating this season. And I’m gurls.

PETER: Yep. Tsunagu’s quite the catch.

CY: I… I just love it.

PETER: Yeah. It is—I don’t quite— It’s kind of like they are definitely in a relationship but they don’t act like it, because the best friend guy still thinks he’s got a shot, which is so weird to see them talking about which one of them’s gonna get her first when dude has never been in a room alone with her and dogboy, literally you’ve seen him open-mouth kissing her with his dog tongue going into her mouth.

CAITLIN: Oh, God.

PETER: It’s just so…

CY: [Laughs]

PETER: You know, they say “author’s poorly disguised fetish.” There’s no disguise. Subtext is for cowards.

CAITLIN: I mean, it is a sequel to a furry… [corrects self] or a covert sequel to a furry porn series, so…

PETER: Yep.

CY: This had porn? [Chuckles] Oh, my god! That explains so much.

PETER: [crosstalk] Yeah, it was probably about his mom and dad. Yeah.

CAITLIN: Yeah.

PETER: Yeah.

CAITLIN: Yeah.

PETER: Yeah. Uh… I… There is… I guess we should bring up the fact that there is fantasy discrimination against the anthropomorphized animal people.

CY: [Inhales deeply] Oh, yeah, we gotta…we gotta bring that up because it’s keeping me awake at night.

PETER: Yeah. And they did just introduce a catgirl who is Tsunagu’s osananajimi, as well. And she’s definitely… She’s got big Merle energy, I’ll say. I hope there are people who recognize an Escaflowne reference out there but…

CAITLIN: Did you say “osananajimi”?

PETER: Yeah.

CAITLIN: You fucking weeb!

PETER: I mean, that’s what…

CAITLIN: Oh, wait, we’re not saying “weeb.” You fucking nerd.

PETER: I’m a nerd. Sorry, yeah, it’s Merle. She’s just Merle from Escaflowne. How about that? Is that a… Or does that date me even worse than saying “osananajimi”?

CAITLIN: [crosstalk, through laughter] I think it’s—

CY: It’s both.

CAITLIN: Yeah.

PETER: Which is worse? Yeah. Making an Escaflowne reference or using a Japanese archetype word?

CY: [Chuckles] It’s both!

PETER: Okay, damn. Okay, so I’m just double cursed then. Okay, good.

CY: You know what? It’s okay.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Alright, yeah, no, there’s no getting out of this one.

PETER: Yeah, alright.

CY: No, but I do want to talk about the fantasy racism because I… you know, I was not around for the conversations when Beastars came out, but I think they did it differently because everyone in that world is a humanoid animal. It’s really interesting here because… [Chuckles] and this is the same question I have about Umamusume—roll with me, play in this space—is that if this is a world where the divergent thing is that they’re humanoid animals that came from experimentation, it’s also a world, much like Umamusume, where the same racialized history played out globally. 

Like, the thought of Harriet Tubman in Umamusume does keep me awake at night, the same way that the horrific treatment of people in this world keeps me awake at night. And With You, Our Love Will Make It Through…I don’t know that it’s ever going to touch on that kind of schism between the politics of— There are certainly humans that are being persecuted along with their humanoid companions and neighbors, but the focus is so much on these animal–human hybrids that are being discriminated [against], and it just bothers me because I really… I don’t mind fantasy racism, but my problem with it is, like, if you don’t address the actual foundation from where it comes from, you’re not really having a conversation. And also, I also know to not expect that from an anime that is this horny…

PETER: [crosstalk] [Chuckles] Not the objective.

CY: … nor from an anime in Japan, a country that is a colonizing country. I just have wants and those wants are rich conversations about racism and the foundations of it. And like I said… because this haunts me in the same way that A Centaur’s Life does with its episodes and chapters about the Holocaust that don’t really actually… which, I don’t know if you two know that they have…

PETER: Oh, yes. I remember it.

[Laughter]

CY: … and how that doesn’t really address but uses it as a set piece. Racism here is functioning as kind of [a] part of the forbidden love, but also the social commentary, but like… I mean, and my mind could unwind down this path forever, but I just wish there was more of a conversation happening in the show. And, you know what, it’s too horny, and honestly I respect that. Just be horny on your face. I love that. But I can’t help the kind of feminist I am, and I just want… I just want… I want my racism. Okay, let me rephrase that.

[Laughter]

CY: I want my discussion about racism. [Chuckles]

PETER: Okay… Uh… Yeah, it’s an interesting comparison to Umamusume. But I will say that they are approaching the period of the story where she goes into, like, the DMZ town, where all the animal people live because I guess a lot of them can’t control their urges or something like that, to visit him. So, that’s as far as I know that the story goes. They might be getting into some stuff. But if they didn’t, I would not be surprised, because the objectives of this story are pretty clear.

CY: Well, I’ll just have to keep watching and report back at the end of the season.

PETER: [crosstalk] Unfortunately. Yeah.

CY: [Sighs]

CAITLIN: Alright. So, speaking of very horny series…

CY: Yes!

PETER: The moment we’ve been waiting for, yeah.

CAITLIN: I don’t… So… Up next is Sanda. Tony and I have talked about doing a podcast episode at the end of the season, because there’s so much going on with it.

CY: It’s fascinating.

CAITLIN: It has just…

CY: Captured my mind.

CAITLIN: … incredible amount to say about the education system in Japan, about the relationship between children and adults…

CY: The relationship between children and their own bodies.

CAITLIN: Yeah, between children and their own bodies, and how adults try to mediate… well, I wouldn’t say “mediate.” “Mediate” makes it sound more positive than it is. How it’ll try to control that. It’s such a fascinating and, I think, a really nuanced conversation that’s happening in it.

CY: Mm, mm-hmm, mm-hmmm.

CAITLIN: Because… And, you know, we’re a little over halfway through. The message I’m coming away with is adolescents are navigating this really thorny territory between childhood and adulthood, they are children in the process of becoming adults, and adults try to control that when they should be helping guide children through it. And there’s all sorts of stuff, like with the Class 10 stuff, which is the class for children who have murdered adults. 

I was thinking about institutionalization and—this is a term that I learned from Tony—organized abandonment. These are children who have been abandoned by adults. They have basically been like, “Well, we can’t give you consequences for your actions,” which is what you need and honestly seems to be what they are crying out for, because children don’t want consequences but they need boundaries, and these children are not being guided through those boundaries in a developmentally appropriate way. But, so, “We can’t give you those consequences for those actions, but we can abandon you.”

CY: Yeah. It’s really fascinating in the examination of cruelty, because my first thought when I started watching this was it’s really interesting to see Japan through the lens of a society that treasures children as an existence but does not appreciate them as an existence. And that’s a very, very specific difference. Like, you can love and treasure children as a concept. 

I mean, I would say, if you reflect this back on modern Japan and modern America, you see a love of children but not an appreciation of their existence and not a support. And it’s really interesting because, you know, we get all these hints of this incredibly dark underbelly of this society of, like, kids who are depressed. Kids who have mental illness do not fit into this society. Like, if you aren’t a happy, healthy, and, within that, able-bodied kid, you don’t have a place. Your place is to be on the fringes.

CAITLIN: The whole concept of the zero-trauma curriculum.

CY: Wild. [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: You become traumatized by existing in the world. And you become further traumatized when people refuse to acknowledge that trauma. It’s a huge tenet of anti-bias education, which is… and honestly as far back as Mr. Rogers. The first episode of Mr. Rogers was about nuclear anxiety.

CY: Yeah. And you couple that with this exploration… because I really find the sexual aspects of this show really, really interesting. Because the thing— They’re running on the Mean Girls “Don’t have sex or you’ll die” logic. But, you know, at one point it said, like, “Don’t kiss or you’ll get cavities,” which is such a childlike way to approach something like kissing, but it’s also a deeply frightening way to approach, like, “Don’t kiss before marriage. That’s what adults do. You’re a child and you need to stay in your lane as a child and do childlike things. Otherwise you will become inherently uncomfortable.”

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] “Don’t sleep!” Like, they’re not supposed to sleep, because staying awake puts them through puberty. And sleep is like the most important thing for a child.

CY: Yeah. Sleep is critical.

CAITLIN: It’s so much about— It’s such an incisive commentary about how adults try to control childhood—when you can’t. You cannot control someone’s development like that.

CY: And then you have the headmaster of the school, who’s the most frightening adult I think I’ve encountered in a while in media, who has the hands of a 92-year-old but is literally trying to stay as connected to childhood as possible but is super malicious about it. And so, you have all these adults that are supposedly doing the right thing, and they are, if you go by the law. But as we all know, adults can do a lot of wrong things within the context of ethics and do a lot of wrong things within the context of ethics. And it’s a fascinating horror that I’m really, really enjoying just studying and dissecting. I love it.

CAITLIN: Yeah. We definitely need to do a full podcast on it at the end of the season, because… oh, my… for the three-episode, since we got it out kinda late and Vrai was like, “Hey, could you add a bit more?” and I’m just like, “I do not have time to unpack all this.” [Chuckles] “I’m sorry. It is already 400 words and… I can’t do it. I can’t.” We have to have a dedicated space for it.

CY: There has to be a retrospective, because there’s so many threads you can tug on that aren’t even our main character being a descendant of Santa and that being so thinly veiled with his family name. [Chuckles] That’s not even the most fascinating part.

CAITLIN: And, y’all, if you feel like… if we’re not touching on something that you wanted us to touch on… It’s got queer relationships. I think the thing that made me go, “I cannot do that,” was the lesbian sex dream, the first time a character had ever fallen asleep in her entire life, leading to her wake-up having gone spontaneously through puberty. And I was just like, I’m sorry. That episode alone I could write a thousand words on. I can’t even try to sum it up. There’s just too much. So, if there’s something that you really wanted us to discuss that we’re not bringing up today, I am so sorry; there’s just too much. There’s just too much going on!

CY: There’s too much. There’s so much.

CAITLIN: Mm-hmm. But you know what’s much simpler, albeit, you know…

CY: [Laughs]

CAITLIN: … maybe, probably still pretty fraught, is Plus-Sized Misadventures in Love.

CY: [crosstalk] Oh, boy.

PETER: Good transition.

CAITLIN: So, Cy, how’s that going?

CY: So, listeners, I’m sure you know by now: I am a fat person. I was born chubby. I have distinct memories of being the first kid to hit 100 pounds in first grade. And I am, based on Your Fat Friend, Audrey Gordon… [corrects self] Aubrey Gordon (sorry to mis…), I am what’s considered a superfat. I am fat and I love being fat and I love my body, and I love that it scares people because it shows that maybe bodies aren’t as put in boxes as we want them.

However, this show… I’ve got notes. I’ve got my notes app open. While it’s really nice to see a plus-sized girl get to be the hero in a medium where being fat is almost always the punchline and set up for cruelty, this show still wants to hate fat people. They might as well play that tuba sound effect from Family Guy, from that bit, when she runs because half the time when she runs, it literally has like a squeaking sound effect. And I’m sorry, but last time I ran, it just sounded like Skechers on pavement. [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: Probably shouldn’t run in Skechers. Those aren’t good running shoes.

[Chuckling]

CY: Well, I don’t run a lot. I was running to get a book for a customer. And I have the air foam ones. They’re very cozy for my plantar fasciitis. But it’s just… Like, there’s this effort to have her be a human character, to have her be just like everybody else. But I’m still thrown off by the fact that she’s drawn so distinctly different. And everyone is baffled by the fact that she has self-confidence. The police refer to her as “that fatty.” [Chuckles] 

And it’s just like— Oh, oh, and when they’re still trying to get the potato chips together for the company, for the Ramune chips (which, that sounds like a horrific, disgusting idea to eat), there’s a bit at that point where they go to Hokkaido to get the chips and source the potatoes, and the farmer says, “Oh, you look so familiar.” He means that she looks like his old pig that he used to love. And that’s not sweet. That’s not sweet. That’s not cute. That’s like, ew, gross, ugh. God, throw it out.

And I hate it because I really do like this show. I love Koda’s confidence. I love that she thinks she’s the prettiest girl in the room. I love that she knows her self-worth. I just hate that part of the joke, in a show that could be about the exploration of an adult woman reckoning with her difficulties with suicidality and depression… the biggest joke is just like, “Look at her, she’s fat! And she likes to eat! Don’t you know fat people like to eat?” Like, dawg, everybody likes to eat. It’s called “We need the energy and food is good.” Food shouldn’t be political. It inherently is, especially when it comes to bigger bodies, and I really resent that because I would just like, once, to have an anime where the joke is Ramune potato chips and not “This fat woman is so fat. She’s fat, fat, fattily fatting through the world.” 

It’s like almost J. K. Rowling levels of talking about Dudley and family at some points, because when I heard her run and heard the squeaking sound, I had to stop, because I was like, “Maybe I misheard.” And it’s just mean. And it’s sad because it complicates a really good show!

CAITLIN: Yeah, well, because it sounds like the manga is a little but doing its best, and then the anime staff is just cruel about it.

CY: Yeah! And it’s sad because I really like Koda as a character. Yumeko (Koda) is really, really funny, and I find her confidence really interesting. And, you know, she’s going through regaining her memories at this point. And it’s really hard to watch because she’s having to reckon with who she was and how much that version of herself hates herself while also reckoning with, like, she has no memory of that. 

I would assume it’s like if you watched amnesia and watched a videotape of yourself in your worst moments but you didn’t remember them. It’s like watching an alternative version of you. And that’s a really interesting story. And then it just gets thuddingly… they have to interrupt and be like, “Did you remember she’s fat, and fat is fat?” And it’s just like, ugh, exhausting.

PETER: Just like the joke is that she is self-confident despite the fact that she absolutely should not be, and that’s supposed to be funny.

CY: Exactly! Exactly.

PETER: [crosstalk] Yeah, okay. Yeah, fuck that.

CY: Yeah. And it sucks. But I’m still going to watch it because I really want it to turn out to be something special, because I like it; I just don’t want fatphobia. I don’t find it to be… It’s not a good punchline and it never has been.

PETER: Mm. Yeah, “Protag who’s way too good for they’re in” trope.

CY: Yeah.

CAITLIN: [Sighs] Same as it ever was.

CY: Put her in Princess Jellyfish. They’ll love her there.

CAITLIN: Yeah. Alright, so… [Sighs] Let’s keep moving, on to Mechanical Marie.

CY: I’ve got very brief thoughts, which is it continues to be incredibly funny. [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: Alright.

PETER: Hell yeah.

CAITLIN: Cool.

CY: Yep.

CAITLIN: So, that takes us out of It’s Complicated and up into Feminist Potential, the category where we feel that the themes might actually have something to say about gender, disability, any kind of marginalization that you may find. This Monster Wants to Eat Me. How is that going? People’s responses to it seem to be either “This is the most amazing thing ever” or “Boy, this production is kinda sauceless, huh.” How are you feeling about it, Peter?

PETER: Definitely after the last episode I’m feeling… I just wish that, you know, the big scene with the two monsters had kinda any… It fell so flat. It didn’t feel like… The audio didn’t grab me, the movement didn’t grab me, the angles, the colors. It was dingy instead of having them doing something cool by making the colors darker. And I feel like that was a really important scene, also, because it involved a revelation which for me might kind of blow up the entire point of interest for the story for me.

So, I just have to talk spoilers, I guess, which is the fact that Shiori knew Hinako, or she has given Hinako her blood, which I guess is probably how she survived that crash, which probably means that she doesn’t want to eat her after all, which I feel like was the most compelling thing about the whole fucking story. So, if that’s not the case and she’s just being a tsundere guardian for Hinako instead of truly wanting to basically consume her at the end or something, I just don’t know what the point is anymore. And that’s where the last episode really left me.

Also, there’s the problem where Hinako is just a character who essentially her entire character is “I would really like to die,” and I feel like that’s a really hard perspective character unless you’ve got some sort of interesting angle on it. And maybe if it was just more horny because, you know, she’s got two, three monsters who all want to drink her blood now—

CY: Man, I wish that were me.

CAITLIN: Oh, it’s a yuri harem.

PETER: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. So, her best friend is also a yokai who wants to eat her, and then she meets another girl, who reminds her of her mom [and] who also wants to eat her.

CAITLIN: Oh, hm!

CY: Oh, never mind. Take back that “I wish it was me!”, never mind! [Chuckles]

PETER: No, it’s kinda, you know, like, “Mommy?” But I don’t know. None of it is… it feels like, oh, this is supposed to be risqué or is really narratively grabbing and then you just have this character who just is… basically her motivation is “I would really like for one of these monsters to just bite my head off so I can die.” And then it turns out that I think the central monster doesn’t actually want to eat her after all! 

So, I’m kinda just wondering what I’m supposed to be attracted to in this story anymore, and I’m sorry if other people are really into it, but I want something to hold on to. Like, if the production looked really good, too, especially since some of the monster designs are really cool, that would be cool, too, but, yeah, it just doesn’t seem to have those resources, so I’m grasping at straws here, man.

CAITLIN: Unfortunately, no one is current on A Mangaka’s Weirdly Wonderful Workplace, which also had some really charming yuri vibes in the first two episodes. But I have not kept up on it, and it doesn’t look like anyone is.

PETER: [crosstalk] Yeah, I need to check that one out.

CAITLIN: Huh?

PETER: Mm-hmm. I need to check it out, for sure.

CAITLIN: Yeah.

So, let’s talk about Gnosia [pronounced “No-shuh”] or Gnosia [pronounced “Gno-shuh”], as they pronounce it in the show.

PETER: [crosstalk] Gnosia [pronounced “Gno-zi-uh”].

CY: Oh, oh! That’s my first complaint, is I hate the pronunciation. Gnosia [pronounced “Gno-zhuh”]? [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: What a delightful adaptation! I’m having such a good time!

CY: I love it! I love it so much.

CAITLIN: We finally got the whole cast with this most recent episode.

CY: Yes. Yes. Including some of my… I mean, we’ve got all my favorites are here. And they’re all so shitty. I love them!

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] You strike me— Alright, Cy, I’m gonna make a called shot.

CY: Okay, oh, no.

CAITLIN: You strike me as an Otome head.

CY: Okay, so…

CAITLIN: [Laughs]

CY: … when I first started to play the game, I actually did not like her.

CAITLIN: [Gasps] No way!

CY: [crosstalk] Loved her by the end. Yeah, I came to really love her at the end. My favorite character ongoing is Comet.

CAITLIN: Oh, Comet’s good.

CY: Because I find her really fascinating when she is in the role of a Gnosia. But I do love Otome now.

CAITLIN: Yeah…

CY: You’re not wrong! I have to admit.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Otome, for those who don’t know, is an intellectualized… they call her a dolphin, but she’s clearly a beluga.

CY: Yes!

PETER: Wait, do they have an intelligent beluga in a tank like in Johnny Mnemonic?

CY: Excuse you, she’s an uplifted dolphin in a suit, Peter! [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: On a scooter.

PETER: [crosstalk] Oh, okay. Oh, wait, in a… Oh, wow, what am I…? Wow. That—

CAITLIN: Yeah. Yeah, she gets around on the scooter, thank you.

PETER: [crosstalk] The character designs in this are crazy!

CAITLIN: Have you not looked at them before?

PETER: I have. When I saw the PV, I was like, “Wow. At least as far as the designs, this has got a lot of juice.” But wow, I didn’t know there was a beluga in a wheelchair.

CY: Yeah! And she’s disabled! Rep!

CAITLIN: And she’s so sweet.

CY: She’s so sweet and she can be evil.

PETER: Oh, my God, the game art. Oh, this is great. [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Okay, they’re all secretly evil sometimes.

CY: Well, yes. But I think it’s different with her. It’s like that, uh—

PETER: [Chuckles] When she’s evil, it’s okay.

CY: It’s gap moe but for evil characters.

PETER: I get it.

CY: It’s so good.

CAITLIN: So, Gnosia is… it’s a really good series, but I think it’s really interesting because it is a series that’s so wrapped up in identity and transhumanism. So, I think the most relevant topic for the website—and there’s a lot of really delightful stuff about Gnosia… I really enjoyed the last episode, which was more— So, actually, I’m not gonna get into the identity chat first. I want to talk about it a little bit more generally.

The most recent episode, which I watched today, was a lot closer to what I had in mind for the series structure in general. All the episodes before, there was a lot of discussing the logic of choosing the Gnosia, which is Werewolf or Mafia, depending on what you played growing up, where someone is murdering people in their sleep and you have to figure out who. Among Us, if you’re a Zoomer, I guess.

[Laughter]

CY: Yeah. It’s like anime Among Us. Cursed words.

CAITLIN: And so, the first few episodes, a lot of it was talking about the logic behind the game because it does have a fairly complex logic to it. But the last episode was a lot closer to what I had kind of originally envisioned they would do with the series, where the game has all these little events in between having to debate and vote for who you think the Gnosia is, and so, the episode— First of all, this was the episode where we finally get the whole cast. We finally met everyone, which is great. And it’s more integrating events from the game together in a coherent way. I was just having such a good time. The episode had one of my favorite game events, the one with Jonas and Shigemichi. Have you watched the most recent episode?

CY: Yeah, and I love it because [Coughs]—pardon me—a lot of the lead-up to now has been almost textbook to what happens in the game, of [when] you start going through and you discover the different roles and credentials. And now we’re getting into the really funny stuff that happens amidst this game of murder. 

And Shigemichi and Jonas are really interesting to me, how they interact, because it’s just dudes being dudes [Chuckles] and they both suck in two different ways but they’re also incredibly funny in two different ways. And the fact that Jonas is like, “I’m a Gnosia,” and everyone’s like, “Hey, dude, what?” [Chuckles] And you get these really interesting character studies in this episode of, like, Jonas will slip up if he is under pressure or if he gets a win unexpectedly, and Shigemichi is super in love with Stella and, like, a goofy guy. I really like this episode. I really like the most recent episode a lot. You also get my boy Sha-Ming.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] And we got Sha-Ming being an absolute trash bag.

CY: Oh, he’s so great. [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: Which is really, I think, gonna be… I’m gonna use this as an on-ramp to discuss the gender stuff, because Gnosia’s a really interesting show in that it has multiple nonbinary characters, including the deuteragonist, Setsu. They have an in-universe gender that’s called han—or pan (I’ve seen it romanized both ways)—where basically all of your sex characteristics are just [clicks tongue] … just gone, removed. And so, the deuteragonist, Setsu, is han. The protagonist, Yuri, is just ambiguous. 

But they go to try to get a guy who’s locked up in his room. And he’s like, “Yeah, alright, Setsu. I’ll come out if you give me a big kiss,” and Setsu’s like, “I’m not even a girl!” And Sha-Ming’s like, “Eh! I’ll do it for you, girl!” And Setsu’s like, “Oh, my God, this fucking guy.” But, you know, nonbinary identities are, like, real, treated as real and not just like “a girl but not a girl” in this world.

CY: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm. Yeah, because when I played the game that was a huge thing for me, was it’s very clear that nonbinary is a well-established, non-contested class for gender. And I think that’s really interesting how it’s carrying over because you do get those kind of funny moments where Sha-Ming is like… like the whole “come out for a kiss” thing, but you also get moments where SQ calls Setsu a girl and Setsu’s really quick to be like, “No. Uh-uh.”

CAITLIN: Not a girl.

CY: “You got it wrong!”

CAITLIN: Mm-hm. Setsu also calls them a boy at one point, and they’re like, “Not a boy!”

CY: Yeah, and it’s really interesting. I also have to say… and we haven’t really gotten to this yet, but I do think there’s some pretty interesting interactions we’re gonna have with Sha-Ming and Setsu coming up because in the game he is the only person that Setsu will kill regardless. Like, my friend, Setsu, will kill him. Does not matter the context. He could be a Gnosia; he could be one of the many different classes.

CAITLIN: I got in trouble once because they killed him and he was the Engineer [Chuckles], but he was dead before the round even started.

CY: Yeah, I got lucky once and I killed him and he was the Bug. [Corrects self] Or, like, Setsu killed him and he was the Bug, and I was like, “Well, that’s fortunate!” [Chuckles] But it’s really funny to me, because I just love that they don’t tolerate him.

CAITLIN: Mm-hm. And I think the show’s conversation around gender has been really interesting overall because… in this episode… you know, this episode had an anime-original scene where, after talking to Sha-Ming, Yuri accidentally misgenders Setsu and is like, “Oh, shit, sorry,” and Setsu’s like, “You know, don’t worry about it,” which is nice. It was nice that they apologized. Because that’s what you do. You apologize and you move on, right?

CY: Right. But it humanizes. It humanizes things. Because, you know, I should say, when the game first got localized officially, there were conversations around some of the ways that Playism decided to localize gendered language. And they pretty quickly put out a patch to edit. But I really like that the anime has also… Because, one, I like that the anime went with a gender-ambiguous lead. I was really concerned how they were gonna go, and I had a worry that they were actually gonna go with a female protagonist alongside Setsu, and I’m really happy that they actually went with the best option possible, which is a gender-neutral protagonist. 

But I do like the conversation it’s having around gender because it shows that in this version of space, it is a truly more expansive version, and it’s really nice… I mean, I don’t want to say “apocalyptic.” I mean, there is the entity known as Gnos (pronounced Nah-ss) and the Gnosia to worry about. But it does show the humanity of this world. And even Raqio is like, “People who get distracted by gender are stupid.” [Chuckles]

CAITLIN: Yeah! I think that’s a really interesting… So, I’m pretty certain, just from how the game presents gender and gender roles, that at least one person—because it’s made by a four-person team—at least one person on that team’s got some gender going on.

CY: Oh, absolutely.

CAITLIN: And the way that, multiple times in this show, characters have said, once you kind of discard the idea of gender, you have a lot more clarity into things, which I think is really interesting.

CY: Well, and I will say, as an agender transmasc person, I really struggle with our real-world concept of gender. I have never once thought that I had a gender in my life. I just didn’t necessarily have the language for it. And even now… You know, I know there’s jokes on the internet about the progression when you transition, of the conversation around going from the assigned gender at birth to the opposite side. And I really struggle with that conversation when I see it pop up. I should say I don’t see it a lot, just because I think a lot more people are open to gender. 

But I really struggle because the stopping point for me was being agender. That is, that absence of gender feels beautiful and wonderful and comfortable to me. But I also find it baffling when people look at me and they’re like, “That’s a woman!” and I’m like, “Where? Where do you see woman?” And I think it’s funny because working at a bookstore the only people who gender me correctly are children and queer people. And my coworkers, obviously. But from the public, children automatically see that ambiguity and queer people do, and I really find that reflected in Gnosia, where that ambiguity is just a natural part of the world. 

This is a world where you have extremely flamboyant and almost peacock-like people. Like, Raqio is wearing the sickest fit. [Chuckles] And it is so overdesigned, and I love it. And then you have Setsu, who’s wearing more of a militarized, maybe what we might think is a more masc outfit. And even then, putting that label on it doesn’t feel right.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] Yeah, but also, their hair is very feminine. When I slip, I usually use “she” with Setsu. And that was even before they were a voiced character for me, because the game is not voiced.

So, it looks like I am the only one of this group watching The Dark History of the Reincarnated Villainess, which is a goddamn shame. Shame on both of you. That show is so good.

CY: [crosstalk] Well, then convince us because I have all of the manga; I just haven’t picked it up yet because I’m afraid of the person I’m gonna become.

CAITLIN: [Chuckles] It is the most pitch-perfect interrogation of what drives female adolescent self-insert fanfic. It is completely unflinching. I’m not gonna get super into the weeds because (A) we’ve gone long, (B) I’m the only one who’s watched it and no one wants to listen to me monologue for 20 minutes, which I will, given the opportunity to talk about this show. But if you, like me, grew up on series like Fushigi Yugi or Escaflowne, maybe even wrote your own version of it when you were 14 years old…

CY: Oh, no, I’m being targeted.

CAITLIN: It is such a… Because it is a true shoujo manga; it runs in LaLa magazine. So, it’s professionally written and drawn, although the art in the manga’s a little rough but… It truly understands this kind of fiction as a teenager’s way of exploring fantasies and these new feelings and what happens if maybe you feel a little bit funny inside seeing the main character getting tortured in the last episode of your favorite anime, and maybe if you think about the bad guy winning, it makes you feel even a little bit funnier inside! [Chuckles] Stuff like that. It’s just… It gets it. You know? And it’s not cruel or mocking about it. It truly feels like it’s coming from a place of…

PETER: Affection?

CAITLIN: Of what?

PETER: Affection?

CAITLIN: Yes. But not affection. Of understanding. Of having been there.

PETER: Yeah, “I am cringe and I am free.”

CAITLIN: Yeah. No, it says, it’s okay to be cringe, because when you are being cringe, you are expecting something honest and true and real. But also, when you are writing about how people check each other’s temperatures in this world by pressing foreheads to one another when you’re fourteen and now you’re in your 20s and 30s and you’re hearing about it again, it is cringe, and you do kinda want to die.

[Chuckling]

CAITLIN: Which are both perfectly real and valid feelings. No, it’s just— Yeah. I really, really do adore it and recommend it. If you read my article about Fushigi Yugi back in the day, then it’s like a comedy manga version of what I was talking about in that article.

[Sighs] So, almost done—

PETER: [crosstalk] Mm-hm. Yeah, I have a lot of respect for the premise.

CAITLIN: Oh. Yeah.

PETER: When she’s just like, “Oh, this is the werewolf monster. And what does he do? Uh… [Speaks with zest] Oh, yeah!” [Chuckles] [Returns to normal voice] I’m just like, okay, yeah, I get it. You’re valid, for sure.

CAITLIN: And I love that it fully embraces that push and pull that you feel as a teenager, where you’re curious about it but you’re also kinda freaked out about it, so you’re kinda finding all these different ways of exploring this fantasy but you’re not quite ready for there to be actual sex involved.

CY: Okay. Well, I’ve been sold.

CAITLIN: [Chuckles] It is very much all in favor of fiction as a way to explore kind of scary, unsafe fantasies. And, plus, it’s directed by a super old-school shoujo anime director. He directed Kodocha.

PETER: Oh, shit!

CY: [crosstalk] Oh, no! I’m sold! Ah!

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] He directed Di Gi Charat. It’s got such a ‘90s sense of humor.

CY: [Feigning annoyance] Well, great.

CAITLIN: [crosstalk] And it’s delightful.

PETER: Welcome back to the ‘90s, this season.

CAITLIN: Alright. We have run so long. Vrai’s gonna yell at me again, as they do every time I host one of these. But before we go, May I Ask for One Final Thing?

PETER: Oh… okay.

CY: [Cackles]

CAITLIN: Let’s fucking talk about May I Ask for One Final Thing?, which I am behind on, so…

PETER: Mm-hm. Well, it is nine episodes already. That’s probably the furthest along, except for Magical Princess, of any show this season.

CAITLIN: I mean, girl punch good.

PETER: Yep, One Punch Woman. I’m loving it. I can’t believe they got rid of the Best Girl category at The Anime Awards before we had Scarlet. Truly a tragedy.

CAITLIN: Just one of many terrible decisions made around that.

PETER: Hm. Yeah, it’s just a really fun show. I love that both the manga and anime have a really good sense of visual style and flair so that not only is she beating the shit out of the guys but they do all these glamour shots. You always see her new fit. You get the shoujo shot in the fit and then, later on, the fit covered in blood after she’s been punching slavers to death or something. It’s really good. Also, the villainess, she’s got the drip as well, so I just think the fashion in the series is off the charts. And I think it’s just a really fun series, where Scarlet just gets to run around and punch things and be the strongest ever, and it’s cool.

Yeah, do I…? Is there anything else that needs to be said?

CAITLIN: I think that covers it.

CY: I think we did it, y’all!

CAITLIN: If you have any thoughts and feelings about shows that we missed talking about, agree or disagree, just want to chat with us, please leave us a comment! Got a lot of anime going on, and we love hearing from people who have time to watch the shows that we did not.

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[Sighs] And, well… may I ask for one final, final thing?

PETER: [exasperated] Okay. Alright.

CY: [Chuckles] Sure.

CAITLIN: Have a great holiday season.

PETER: Oh, that’s very sweet. Thought you were gonna say, like, “Please donate to the Patreon,” or something.

[Laughter]

CAITLIN: I thought about it, but I already did the Patreon spiel!

PETER: You went the wholesome route. That’s good.